prices

Gil · King Lifthransir

prices

Date: May 22, 2005

You need to remember that items have a base price, and stores have modifications to that price. 2/3 of the Base price is the selling price. Integer(Not rounded) price of 110% of Base price is one of the prices I've see stores sell items at, and Integer of 115% of the Base price is another one. This mostly applies to Castle of the Winds 2, since I don't intend to test CotW1 stores, or make such a chart of store buying or selling prices.

I have figured out this much:
Unidentified items have a fixed cost.

All my other tests say you're in for an uphill battle, as comparing the base price of several items and doing effect-based calculations on the price, both before and after factoring out the cost of an unenchanted item gave no definitive results.

Gil · King Lifthransir

I came to roughly the same conclusions. I noticed that it works with percentages indeed, so to work it all out I'd need to research the base prices of unenchanted objects. I can look their correct prices up through hex, they are the third, fourth and fifth byte I believe (I'll have to look up how many bytes are reserved for base price).

If only we had the source. Rick Saada told me that the source code is a mess of asm and an old programming language, and he doesn't want to hand it out. Maybe I could mail him and ask him to send things such as the base prices...

I need realistic prices, so I can make my self-made objects as close to the real thing as possible. My next step will be searching for some seemingly formulas, by looking at base prices of objects, same object with one enhancement, compare it to another object and that object with the same enhancement...

Date: May 23, 2005

4 bytes are reserved for Base Price, and the bytes are Unsigned, so you can't have a negative price on it.

Here's a basic set of items from a store with a pair of identical enchantments, along with the normal item-based ones:

(Status value of 3 means Identified and Enchanted)

Item Class: Rings
Item Subclass: Ring of Protection
Item Cost: 3500
Item Activation Value: 131
Item Status Value: 3
Item Effect Slots: 1 (17)

Item Effect 1: character's armor value
Item Effect 1 Activation Value: 12
Item Effect 1 Power Level: 5
Item Effect 1 Charges/Hours: 0
Item Effect 1 Summon Mons. Value: 0

Total item size in file: 22

---

Item Class: Gauntlets
Item Subclass: Gauntlets of Protection
Item Cost: 2500
Item Activation Value: 131
Item Status Value: 3
Item Effect Slots: 2 (34)

Item Effect 1: Increase Armor Value(Power=Amount)
Item Effect 1 Activation Value: 12
Item Effect 1 Power Level: 5
Item Effect 1 Charges/Hours: 0
Item Effect 1 Summon Mons. Value: 0

Item Effect 2: character's armor value
Item Effect 2 Activation Value: 12
Item Effect 2 Power Level: 5
Item Effect 2 Charges/Hours: 0
Item Effect 2 Summon Mons. Value: 0

Total item size in file: 32

Date: May 23, 2005

Info on a pair of bracers I forgot to add:

Item Class: Bracers
Item Subclass: Bracers of Defense
Item Cost: 1700
Item Activation Value: 131
Item Status Value: 3
Item Effect Slots: 2 (34)

Item Effect 1: Increase Armor Value(Power=Amount)
Item Effect 1 Activation Value: 12
Item Effect 1 Power Level: 3
Item Effect 1 Charges/Hours: 0
Item Effect 1 Summon Mons. Value: 0

Item Effect 2: character's armor value
Item Effect 2 Activation Value: 12
Item Effect 2 Power Level: 5
Item Effect 2 Charges/Hours: 0
Item Effect 2 Summon Mons. Value: 0

Total item size in file: 32

Gil · King Lifthransir

Great info, I'll compare them to the prices of their non-enhanced counterparts...

Gil · King Lifthransir

I think I saw that shops sell better weapons farther ahead in the game, but on which aspect is it based? I thought it was level, but apparently not, perhaps XP?

Rigth now I'm going to look for for some weapons with similar effects, since it's hard to compare gauntlets and bracers.

I found out that increasing of chance to hit, damage and armor value adds less to the price than the strength, dextertity, constitution and intelligence ones

I tried shields, and I can't seem to find any logic in them...

Large wooden shield : 2000
Large wooden shield (increases): 3500
Large wooden shield (strongly increases): 7000

Medium meteo steel shield (increases): 7150
Medium meteo steel shield (strongly increases): 11000

Gil · King Lifthransir

Version 0.1 of the prices lookup chart is out

http://www.faktor-g.com/cotw/

-- Edited by Gil at 21:40, 2005-05-24

googl · King Lifthransir

Maybe the chart could be added to the free-hand-item-adder? (one selects an item and the price is given)

Gil · King Lifthransir

When the chart is complete (could take a while if we find no similarities or formulas) this would be an option yes. Actually, we'd need a team of four people to note down these values, that'd be faster...

Date: May 24, 2005

Normal Large wooden shield: 2000
Enchanted Large wooden shield (IxA): 3500
Enchanted Large wooden shield (SIxA): 7000
(8,11)
Normal Medium meteoric steel shield: 5500
Enchanted Medium meteoric steel shield (IxA): 7150
Enchanted Medium meteoric steel shield (SIxA): 11000

I saw a strain of reason withing the chaos. It may hold true for other shields(and other enchantments...)
If it does hold true across items and effects, all that would be needed is a few basic values, and other stuff could be calculated from it.

Factor out the base item price across both item types:

Normal Large wooden shield: 0
Enchanted Large wooden shield (IxA): 1500
Enchanted Large wooden shield (SIxA): 5000
(8,11)
Normal Medium meteoric steel shield: 0
Enchanted Medium meteoric steel shield (IxA): 1650
Enchanted Medium meteoric steel shield (SIxA): 5500

SIxA price divided by IxA price = 3 + (1/3) = (3.3333...)
IxA price * (3 + (1/3)) = SIxA price

NLws Price / IxA price = 1.333...
(Iron/Steel shield IxA = 2.333...)? (Maybe also dependant on Small-Large)
NMmss Price / IxA price = 3.333...

Normal Large Wooden shield price * (1 + (1/3) = (1.333...)) = IxA
Normal Medium meteoric steel shield price * (3 + (1/3) = (3.333...)) = IxA

So Normal Item price may be a factor in the calculations.
(Using this idea with Equal formulas, most rings have a base price of 2000)

Also, a Normal Medium Iron Shield(2400) is twice the cost of a Normal Small Iron Shield(1200), which could allow for even less data to be used for each specific item class.

Gil · King Lifthransir

v0.2 will have alot more data, I'll try to check it. Formulas for items with one effect are not really useful by themselves, but might provide some insight into the multiple effect items (armor and weapons)

The prices of the bracers might be a reference or be random, I've got all bracer prices in v0.2

I'll be checking out as many shields as I can to check those formulas. Then let's hope they apply in some weird manner to weapons and armor too...

v0.2 will be up in a couple of hours btw

Great work on those formulas!

Gil · King Lifthransir

Okay, I've found some stuff earlier than expected, so here's v0.2:

http://www.faktor-g.com/cotw/

Seems like your theory of medium shield = small shield x2 isn't correct. Haven't looked up any enchanted ones yet, so the other formulas might still be right.

Date: May 25, 2005

I'm sure you figured this out already, but if you save a game before ever entering any one of the stores, then every time you do enter that store, you can get a completely different inventory, see if you need something they have, and if not, reload the save and get a refresed store stock. This works on a store-by-store basis(at least, it does in Castle of the Winds 2)

Gil · King Lifthransir

Yeah, I knew. Actually, the store changes stock every day, so I always save at 59:59, so if I take one step into the shop the stock changes...

The problem is that weapons with 2 effects are already too advanced, so I'm playing the game up to a part where the weapons with one effect start appearing...

I discovered your another nice item btw:

Normal Suit of Splint Mail: 25000
Enchanted Suit of Splint Mail (IxA): 32500

Normal Suit of Leather Armor: 1000
Enchanted Suit of Leather Armor (IxA): 2500

Still no real logics, *sigh*

Gil · King Lifthransir

The data on the meteorics seems deviant from the others, the others just seem to be:

normal
I: normal + 1500
SI: normal + 5000

Shields:

(8,1)
Normal Small Wooden Shield: 500
(8,2)
Normal Medium Wooden Shield: 1000
Enchanted Medium Wooden Shield (IxA): 2500
Enchanted Medium Wooden Shield (SIxA):
(8,3)
Normal Small Iron Shield: 1200
Enchanted Small Iron Shield: 2700
(8,4)
Normal Large wooden Shield: 2000
Enchanted Large Wooden Shield (IxA): 3500
Enchanted Large Wooden Shield (SIxA): 7000
(8,5)
Normal Medium Iron Shield: 2400
(8,6)
Normal Small Steel Shield: 2600
(8,7)
Normal Large Iron Shield: 3000
Enchanted Large Iron Shield (IxA): 4500
(8,8)
Normal Medium Steel Shield: 3200
(8,9)
Normal Large Steel Shield: 4000
Enchanted Large Steel Shield (IxA):
Enchanted Large Steel Shield (SxA): 9000
(8,10)
Normal Small Meteoric Steel Shield: 4400
(8,11)
Normal Medium Meteoric Steel Shield: 5500
Enchanted Medium Meteoric Steel Shield (IxA): 7150
Enchanted Medium Meteoric Steel Shield (SIxA): 11000
(8,12)
Normal Large Meteoric Steel Shield: 7000
(8,13)
Shield of Deflection: 0

Gil · King Lifthransir

Okay! First Breakthrough!

Every effect on a weapon is just a plus. For example "increases chance to hit" is +2000

Quarter Staff: 600
Quarter Staff (IxH,VIxD): 14600

= +14000 = +2000 (IxH) + 12000 (VIxD)

Here's the proof:

Normal Club: 100
/* 2 effects */
Enchanted Club (IxH, IxD): 4100
Enchanted Club (SIxH, SIxD):
Enchanted Club (VIxH, VIxD): 24100

Normal Mace: 1600
/* 2 effects */
Enchanted Mace (IxH, IxD): 5600
Enchanted Mace (SIxH, SIxD):
Enchanted Mace (VIxH, VIxD):

Normal Axe: 1800
/* 2 effects */
Enchanted Axe (IxH, IxD): 5800
Enchanted Axe (SIxH, SIxD):
Enchanted Axe (VIxH, VIxD):

Normal Battle Axe: 2000
/* 2 effects */
Enchanted Battle Axe (IxH, IxD):
Enchanted Battle Axe (SIxH, SIxD): 14000
Enchanted Battle Axe (VIxH, VIxD):

Gil · King Lifthransir

Okay, I've got the Weapon prices finished!

increases anything: +2000
Strongly increases anything: +6000
Very Strongly increases anything: +12000
Enchanted against or resistant to: +20000

All I need to check now is activated weapons, but I'm assuming they get +20000 for each activated effect

I found alot of logic in the armor too, for example, +20000 for resistant against. I just haven't found the relation between base price and the IxA, it seems like there's three levels of armor, and they all have their own additions. It'll take a little longer to figure those out...

Gil · King Lifthransir

In case of armor it seems like it works with multiplying:

IxA: * 1,3
VIxA: * 3,1

It doesn't fit for the leather armor suit though, how weird...

Oh, and an activated effect is +40000 for a weapon...

-- Edited by Gil at 02:37, 2005-05-25

Gil · King Lifthransir

http://www.faktor-g.com/cotw/

Okay, I think I've got most of it figured out, I just need to collect all the prices of the potions and scrolls.

What I need now is the price of a large pack of holding and I still haven't got the formulas for Helmets. You can check some of the prices I found in the file "prices v0.3"

There's a new file called "base prices v1.0a", which is the latest. It's got all the formulas and prices I know of. I removed the enchanted items from this list though, only the formulas to find them are mentioned. If you want to try to figure out the formulas for the helmets, try looking at v0.3, because it has some enchanted helmet's prices...

Oh, I'm also not quite sure of the formulas for the shields. Could anyone beta test these prices and check them with in-game items? If you want to know the price of an object you need to look at the selling price, it's always exactly 60% of the total price. Don't look at the buying prices of shops, because those are anywhere between 104% and 110% of the price....

I'm off to bed people...

-- Edited by Gil at 04:01, 2005-05-25

Date: May 25, 2005

I added all the stuff on the Todo list to the file(and deleted the Resist Acid/Fear stuff, since that's not available, ever)

I didn't really test any of the existing values, so I'll have to get to that at some other point.

I'm quite happy with the amount of stuff in your save.cwg.

To get the update, go to my CotW page and get the 'Base Prices v1.1u text file'. It's still in the original .htm format, but angelfire was screwing around with it when it was in .htm format.

http://www.angelfire.com/nc/ugetab/castle12.html

Gil · King Lifthransir

Lovely, that's more then I'd had expected to see this morning. I'll update the file to v1.1b (b for beta, since it's still not ready, and since I won't add anything) when I got the time (you know, add credits and copyrights and stuff)

I noticed there's one thing missing: the VIxA prices of leather armor, so we'll just need to find that one. Oh, and I cheated a tiny bit with the meteoric steel shields I believe, but it's pretty close now, and this way it fits to the formulas.

Oh, and it's easy to get a VIxA Meteoric Steel Helmet. You get a MSHelmet from the jarl at one point, just save right before and keep reloading until he gives you a VIxA one, same with the slaying gauntlets...

It just dawns that I need to add a small introduction to the file, so people know what to do with this file...

So, todo is finding out the prices of Leather armor (VIxA) and studded leather armor (VIxA), that should be it I think...

I just realised I still need to add alot of prices, like the formulas for wands and staffs, won't take too long though...

Edit: I need prices of Staffs, Wands and Amulets, together with formulas to calculate price of them based on the number of charges...

-- Edited by Gil at 14:04, 2005-05-25

Gil · King Lifthransir

I'm having troubles with wands.

Neckwear is added, Staffs is under way, but easy. They all have a base price and you have to add 300 for each charge. (Oh, btw, I'll have to look up which value appears in the hex, I'm assuming that base price, the price per charge is probably calculated every time you try to sell something...

Wands are buggers though. Apparently they have a base price and a price per charge, but unlike the spell books where the level of the spell matters it doesn't seem to fit for wands (compare magic arrow and detect objects for example, they're same level). I'll guess they are different, so I'll have to look them all up... Might take some time :(

Transmogrify Monster:
level: 5
base: 5100
step: 200

Fireball:
level: 4
base: 5500
step: 200

Ball Lightning:
level: 4
base: 5200
step: 200

Cold Ball:
level: 3
base: 5000
step: 175

Slow Monster:
level: 3
base: 4200
step: 150

Sleep Monster:
level: 3
base: 4000
step: 150

Magic Arrow:
level: 1
base: 1600
step: 100

Detect objects:
level: 1
base: 3000
step: 125

Gil · King Lifthransir

Okay, everything is looked up, except for two things...

http://www.faktor-g.com/cotw/base-prices-v1.2b.htm

Alot of stuff has changed, some basic markup was brought in too. Eventually, I'll style it properly, but for now this suffices.

Todo:

VIxA of Leather and Studded Leather armor
Wand of Teleport Away
Staff of Healing

That's all we need before it's complete I think...

Date: May 25, 2005

Enchanted Suits of Leather Armor
VIxA: 10500

Wand of Teleport Away:
X for Fireball, Ball Lightning, Transmogrify Monster, Teleport Away:
200

(3,13)
Wand of Teleport Away: 4200

Staff of Healing:
X for Staff of Healing:
500

(4,6)
Staff of Healing: 10000

Due to the difficulty of trying to account for such things within the item editor, I think I'll just make a form in my program devoted to determining price with easily-readable boxes and such. This would let it build basic items as well, since it would be determined that these were existing item effects.

Date: May 25, 2005

By the way, take out my comment that:
(Detect Monsters normally doesn't go with anything else, except on the Helm of Storms)

I meant it within the context of Helmets, but I just didn't word it right. I've definately seen weapons with that effect, and it probably goes along the same lines as a resistance.

(I just found one in a Stores save, so I'll test it)

I've confirmed the above hypothesis. I also believe that's the price used it there's ever a weapon that makes you levitate(but I don't know if that effect is available on a weapon)

Date: May 25, 2005

Rings:
I: 3500
SI: 7000
VI: 12500

In all my saves, I have but 1 very strongly enchanted ring, it seems.

Gil · King Lifthransir

I think we've covered everything now?

http://www.faktor-g.com/cotw/base-prices-v1.3.htm

Here's the final version probably...

Oh, and I never found a VI ring it seems, I can't find one in any of my save games (I've got five completed save games or so)

With my last one I didn't manage to find a large meteoric shield or a large pack of holding either.

I'm creating a save file now which has alot of rare weapons to start with, it's pretty fun to have "Enchanted Gauntlets of Ogre Power", which have VI chance to hit, VI damage and VI strength.

Date: May 25, 2005

Normal Medium Meteoric Steel Shield: 5500

IxA: base price +1500
SIxA: base price +5000
VIxA: base price +10500

(Multiply +price by 1.1 for Medium Meteoric Steel Shields, and maybe Large Meteoric Steel shields, but I can't find any to test)

Gil · King Lifthransir

http://wind.prohosting.com/cotwrpg/savegame.html

Seems to have a large meteoric shield

I'll wait until we find all meteoric shields, since I'm not entirely sure if the formulas correct. It should be, since I found similar results, but it really doesn't make sense...